27 June 2009
collected by Leo Nikora from the Nottingham Board
| Rudy Rencoret |
What is the Three Ducks [or Three Ducks in a Row] Leave? |
|---|---|
| Chris Williams |
[A leave set after the third ball of a game runs to hoop #4B, usually after a Super Shot Opening.] All three balls in a row. Generally on the west boundary up towards hoop 2, with the opponent's ball in the middle and the 4 back ball as the inner ball. If the opponent misses with the fourth ball into corner 2 then picking up a standard triple is trivial. |
| Michael Wright |
What is the best line of play if you do not get a rush out of hoop 1? In more words, if you rush peelee to 1 after opponent has missed into corner 2, but you end up having to take croquet from close to 1 after making 1. John Riches would probably play a split shot putting peelee to 3, ending a couple of feet from corner 2. Is there an alternative? I don't think so (see below), but the positioning of the CB might be important. Do you place it right at 3, or somewhat E of 3? One alternative is to leave the ball in corner 2 alone till after hoop 2. I suspect that this may be inferior. The croquet stroke after 1 is now the "normal" one to get to the pioneer at 2. Rush the reception ball towards the corner after 2, then play a high-ratio stop-shot to place the CB into escape position for the peel. The big croquet stroke is now the one out of corner 2 to load 4, and approach the peelee. Is this better? The croquet stroke is a lot longer for the CB, but there is less risk of the SB going out. If the pioneer for 4 is bad, you run the risk of losing control because the rush on the escape ball may also be difficult (due to the escape ball being placed from far away). The relevant distances are:
The ratio for (2) makes it a lot more appealing — I find it quite easy to get the SB distance wrong on pass rolls. Obviously a matter of practise and technique. But if I can get very good at either normal ratio or pass rolls, but not both, I'd probably spend the time and effort on perfecting my normal ratio shots. Opinions appreciated — but please don't fall into the trap of debating if pass rolls are easier than normal ratio shots, or how lawn speed affects these shots, etc — I think that topic has been exhausted. |
| Paddy Chapman |
I think this is much safer, and if I wasn't feeling up to the big croquet shot (depends on the day), I'd be very comfortable to use this method. |
| Jerry Stark |
That sounds like a reasonable method to me. Especially if you can kick the H1 pioneer east a bit. |
| Samir Patel |
Two alternative lines to consider.
I think all four options are playable, depending on which shots you're good at and lawn conditions. You will also want to factor exactly what your rush looks like after 1. If you've got a 2ft rush around 10 yrds N of 1 that you can tap, your line of play is likely to be different that if you had a 5 yard return which is likely to leave you on or near S boundary. |
| Chris Clark |
I think the only point that I would add to this relates to the positioning of the hoop 3 pioneer. If we opt to play the take-off to C2, we will be leaving the peelee behind and will need to rush it to hoop 3 from distance and then croquet it into peeling position. I prefer to have the hoop 3 pioneer level with the hoop. Then, irrespective of whether you rush the peelee north or south of hoop 3, you should still have a playable croquet stroke to position the peelee whilst getting a rush to the hoop. |
| Rob Edlin-White |
On fairly paced lawns I've found the split from H1 to H3 & C2 to be reasonably playable so long as I calculate the stroke by starting with the conventional split to H2 & H3 and then adjusting. (Aim point adjusted slightly westwards, give it a bit more roll). If I try to calculate the stroke from first principles I tend to find SB going too far West. Twice in one tournament ended up in the West yard-line area doing this. The mid point is hard to envisage; it is not mid way between hoops 2 and 6. |
| Nick Parish |
Very interesting question. I was pondering exactly the same after Samir commented how easy it was to get a standard triple from a miss into C2 after the three ducks leave, and thinking that it's very easy provided you get a rush out of H1 but otherwise more challenging. I prefer Paddy's option, but one point I would make about the big split to C2 and H3 is that although the ratio is big, it helps that the angle is fairly wide. I'm rubbish at pass rolls but I'd fancy my chances at that angle. (The risk of going off the lawn still makes me prefer the take-off.) As Samir says, it does make a big difference exactly where you are — if you're playing the croquet stroke from 3 yards north and 1 yard east of H1 then the angle is a lot bigger than 3 yards south of H1. |
| Samir Patel |
I'd also add that for the take off to corner II line of play, I'd consider a fairly thick takeoff to corner 2 as well. I would rather get the peelee into the East half of the lawn if I can do so without putting the approach to IV at risk. Chris' point about the positioning of the hoop 3 pioneer is a good one that I hadn't thought about in general terms before. Other than the line of play involving a big roll from corner II, the position he describes just to the side of hoop 3 sounds like a good general purpose spot. I guess aiming to put it in the jaws probably gives the biggest margin for error. |
| Jonathan Hills |
I was interested to note that a take off to c2 was a suggested line, having failed to get a rush after hoop1, since for a delayed tp, many people are quite reluctant to take off to c4 after hoop3. Perhaps this shot is not as difficult as I have been led to believe. |
| Samir Patel |
It's a feasible line, as is the take off from 3 to IV - that doesn't mean that anyone has to like it ;) However, I think there is a difference. After taking off from peelee after hoop 1 to corner II, there's still another rush, a croquet stroke and a second rush before the peelee needs to be in a good position for the peel. However, after taking off from peelee after hoop 3 to corner IV, there is one rush to get it into a good position. This means that where the peelee ends up in the take off after hoop 3 is more important than in the take off after hoop 1. Also, the take off after 1 was being considered after not getting any sort of useful rush after hoop 1, meaning you've got to pick between a number of unappealing shots. By hoop 3, you might (should?) have some sort of control, so it might/should be possible to avoid any unappealing lines of play. |
| Michael Wright |
In a well-controlled delayed tp, some players do not like the prospect of a take-off from h3 to C4. They play for a rush out of the hoop to somewhere much closer to C4. If they do not get the rush, they usually play the take-off (albeit with some trepidation). The problem we have been discussing in this thread is what to do when you do not get a rush out of 1 towards C2. If you still want to do a standard tp, you have to get to the ball in C2 soon. One of the suggested lines is to do a take-off, which many people would find easier than a big split. It is still a shot that carries some risk of being too long or too short. The advantage of completing a standard triple to win in the fifth turn must be weighed against the risk of giving the opponent all the balls in the sixth. The answer to the question would be dictated by the lawn, your confidence and skill, and your opponent's assumed skill. |